tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post2506958293337493090..comments2024-02-25T16:56:47.627-05:00Comments on Magdalene's Egg: The Amice is Your FriendFather Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18170260624474428623noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-66493836578257353102018-12-14T16:45:53.862-05:002018-12-14T16:45:53.862-05:00Dear Stephan,
As you can tell, the blog hasn'...Dear Stephan,<br /><br />As you can tell, the blog hasn't been getting a lot of attention the past couple of years. But returning to it recently, after a very long layoff, I just noticed your eight-year-old comment (!) and hit the publish button.<br /><br />I will say, a lot of what I was writing before about 2015 should be taken tongue in cheek. I was rarely entirely in earnest. In a sense, that has been part of my long layoff: I'm afraid that the horrors of the Trump Administration have driven me so far around the bend that I have a hard time even making fun of them, or of much of the world's other silliness.Father Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18170260624474428623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-55819129746110865472018-12-13T21:48:30.891-05:002018-12-13T21:48:30.891-05:00Am not quite sure why (or how) the above post was ...Am not quite sure why (or how) the above post was reposted this a.m....since I think I wrote it in 2010<br />Still stand by the comment.<br /><br />Frankly I think amices are rather like detachable Victorian collars . see here for example https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tx0CcVYaSUI<br />I do agree that essentially they (like the collar) are a convenient way of keeping other vestments clean....it's easier to wash an amice, or to launder a collar than to try to clean a chasuble or a shirt.<br />BUT in the last 150 years we have seen a change in materials, and an improvement in the facility to launder and clean vestments and shirts! <br />We have ( as is our wont ) given a curious spiritual connexion to a practical vestment....I don't deprecate this <i>I will put on the helmet of salvation, </i> a good allusion and reminder of our call to holiness.<br />Let's not be obsessed by amices. But I do muse about elsewhere (https://marymagadelaide.blogspot.com/2015/12/tie-one-on.html?q=tie+one+on)<br />Stephan Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11194782441138561354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-42020484886539388932017-10-08T05:28:57.933-04:002017-10-08T05:28:57.933-04:00Am interested in your comments in this post. But t...Am interested in your comments in this post. But think your comments about the Presiding Bishop, Katherine Jefferts-Schori are deeply dismissive.<br />Whether or not you think women may be Bishops she was the Presiding Bishop of ECUSA.<br />How deeply insulting was this occasion!<br />My understanding is that her mitre was carried in procession before her.<br />This problem is not solved by '<i><br />buying an amice'</i>Stephan Clarkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11194782441138561354noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-86864235819419951472010-10-08T12:49:07.112-04:002010-10-08T12:49:07.112-04:00Amices are not just for appearance in real time. T...Amices are not just for appearance in real time. Their usefulness is also preventive and cumulative. One of their chief purposes is to protect fine silk vestments from perspiration stains. Really. They swaddle the sweaty neck.<br /><br />I've made amices. Very easy. Handkerchief linen, wide cotton tape for the ties.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11103957283010197153noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-10463960747829396342010-10-08T01:57:39.593-04:002010-10-08T01:57:39.593-04:00Almy does sell them, item 31300W. But I don't...Almy does sell them, item 31300W. But I don't think they sell many of them, so they are rarely featured.<br /><br />You can also pick them up at various Romish supply houses, including Autom and Granda (http://www.usagranda.com/amices.html). <br /><br />That said, and despite this entire thread, I want to be clear and say that I personally prefer the cassock-alb. Covers my neck almost as well, and much easier to use. Not to mention kinder in hot weather.Father Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18170260624474428623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-18873501099608003962010-10-07T22:21:01.027-04:002010-10-07T22:21:01.027-04:00I was trained this way: when you are at work, wea...I was trained this way: when you are at work, wear your collar. When you are not, do not.<br />That has served me very well. (It also means that I wear the collar a lot.)audreynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-45944426556966333342010-10-07T19:18:21.741-04:002010-10-07T19:18:21.741-04:00Well, that brings up a good question. From where d...Well, that brings up a good question. From where does one purchase an amice and a proper alb? I don't see them in the Almy catalog.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-75889185988557880452010-10-07T10:56:38.189-04:002010-10-07T10:56:38.189-04:00I'd be happy if we could only get our West Coa...I'd be happy if we could only get our West Coast and Midwestern clerics to stop wearing gray trouser and brown loafers at the Divine Office!<br /><br />Dan<br />San FranciscoAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-23365059444506101732010-10-07T10:35:11.706-04:002010-10-07T10:35:11.706-04:00Which leads to another conversation--collar/cleric...Which leads to another conversation--collar/clericals as "street clothes." Nowadays, how often do we each wear them, and when? 7 days a week? 6? 5? Only when we're in the church office or on a pastoral visit or anticipate vesting? Only when we're doing something diaconal/priestly? Only when we want to "advertise" the Church's presence in the world in a specific way? How fast are we to take the collar tab out of the shirt as we head off to non-church things? And so to what extent have clericals perhaps entered some sort of middle ground--not just for sacred space, but not just worn all the time as a t-shirt or oxford button-down might be, either? <br /><br />I'm still sorting out my own personal practice of collar-wearing, which I'm sure will also change based on what parish I'm serving. Right now the biggest factor is my limited number of clerical shirts and the hassle of dealing w/ a shared laundry room w/ way too few washer/dryers for the number of tenants . . . .Gilliannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-32859355525912426092010-10-07T07:03:31.893-04:002010-10-07T07:03:31.893-04:00I think some things are beginning to be muddled he...I think some things are beginning to be muddled here. In some orders, particularly monastic ones like Cistercians, as an example, the "cowl" is a loose-fitting garment, much like the alb the Presiding bishop is wearing in your photo, with wide sleeves and a hood. This is worn at the office, and a priest presiding in such a community would not have another alb than this. That Gillian, the Presiding Bishop, and many, many others now wear such an alb and consciously see it as "monastic-style" is worth a doctoral thesis - not merely a post comment :-)<br /><br />Blessings<br /><br />Bosco+<br />www.liturgy.co.nzliturgyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11822769747947139669noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-70897737008312027502010-10-07T06:13:59.612-04:002010-10-07T06:13:59.612-04:00G: First off, I genuflect at the altar of Kavanag...G: First off, I genuflect at the altar of Kavanagh. But I'm not sure that his silence on a very small point should be read as an endorsement. My copy of Elements is many thousand miles away, but as I recall he usually winds up explaining why the Romish rubrics are right.<br /><br />My point here is that the black (one hopes!) shirt and collar are street clothes, as much as a necktie or scarf. One covers them up upon entering into the (pardon this wretched and misleading expression) sacred space, just as one would a necktie.<br /><br />But, lest all this get too legalistic, there is also the cassock to consider. Should a person wearing a clerical collar remove it when leading some service that calls for a cassock? That seems logical, but it isn't the custom so far as I know. For that matter, the cassock itself, customarily understood as clothing-not-vestment, shows plenifully under the surplice. So there is at least one case in which almighty Tradition seems to smile upon a flash of clerical streetwear. The cowl-neck and flappy sleeves could be seen as just an extension of this principle.<br /><br />(Side question: is "monastic-style alb" just a marketing phrase, or is there any actual tradition of monks wearing historically anomalous albs in a Eucharistic celebration? I suppose it might be something about the cowl of a habit sticking up from under a chasuble. I have no idea, and I'm very curious.)<br /><br />Anyway, with certain strategic exceptions noted, I think it is wisest to vote with the GIRM and longstanding tradition here, and cover the neck. <br /><br />LG asks the sorta-opposite question. If we're covering up our necks anyway, why wear a collar? The answer, basically, is: coffee hour. <br /><br />In other words, both before and after the celebration of the Eucharist, it is likely that you will want to be seen wearing your usual dress-up clothes. For some people, that means a collar; for others, of course, it doesn't. Either way, these are the clothes that get covered up by the alb and amice.<br /><br />Now, if we want to kick this discussion of inessentials up a notch, shall we talk about pectoral crosses worn by people without jurisdiction? Heh, heh, heh ....Father Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18170260624474428623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-17109028231855532742010-10-07T00:58:16.373-04:002010-10-07T00:58:16.373-04:00Thanks for the tip about the amice. Now what can ...Thanks for the tip about the amice. Now what can you recommend to all those pastors who wear gray trousers and/or brown loafers?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-62238627183937105082010-10-06T23:21:18.421-04:002010-10-06T23:21:18.421-04:00I may call myself a liturgy geek, but I am but a d...I may call myself a liturgy geek, but I am but a dilettante in your presence. Why again do you wear a collar when you are wearing an alb?LiturgyGeekhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15057237447008958156noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-60093247856465548122010-10-06T22:38:58.140-04:002010-10-06T22:38:58.140-04:00I agree w/ the anti-cowl-neck view if you're i...I agree w/ the anti-cowl-neck view if you're in mufti--i.e. for lay folks and clergy who've had to suddenly vest when they weren't expecting it. (But this is why we have spare clericals in our offices, right?). But if I'm in a black clergy shirt and collar, and it's visible at the neck of my monastic-style alb, to me that's no more "individual" or personal or distracting than the stole I'm wearing. Both "say" the same thing. If I'm in a clergy shirt in a color other than black, then maybe yes, it should be covered. <br /><br />I don't remember Aidan Kavanaugh saying anything about loose necks or sleeves, and he doesn't generally miss an opportunity for liturgical snark . . . (The Elements of Rite)Gilliannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-48401668704599263622010-10-06T14:12:06.505-04:002010-10-06T14:12:06.505-04:00Plus, now that I think about it, he liked the cowl...Plus, now that I think about it, he liked the cowl neck. Which just proves that reasonable people can disagree.Father Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18170260624474428623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-59680329656472840652010-10-06T11:03:01.930-04:002010-10-06T11:03:01.930-04:00So true, which is one of the reasons I posted it. ...So true, which is one of the reasons I posted it. You never know when a seminarian will stumble over the site.<br /><br />During my Lutheran year (and for years afterward), I spent a LOT of time with Gordon Lathrop. He was a genius at explaining the symbolism to us, right down to the advice about wristwatches. But poor Gordon (whom I admire tremendously) just couldn't bring himself to come out and tell us what to do and not do. Even when we needed it desperately.Father Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18170260624474428623noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-15178007.post-1691568529428717632010-10-06T10:29:36.229-04:002010-10-06T10:29:36.229-04:00Nobody teaches this in seminary. I did know I had...Nobody teaches this in seminary. I did know I had a alb that was way too short and have since remedied that. But I didn't know my collar wasn't supposed to show. They need to teach this stuff in seminary.Pastor Joellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14212838423929588352noreply@blogger.com